Although I have not called this article: “Are Christians going to heaven? – Part 2,” in effect, this is what it is. This Holy Scripture is one of the most emotive and uplifting Holy Scriptures in the New Testament accounts. However, there is a twist and the twist is a serious flaw in the way that it’s written. Just like the Cainite-Judeo-Christian Religion’s (mainstream Christianity’s) belief in Good Friday afternoon to Sunday morning as three days and three nights, this, too, makes Yashua Messiah (the Lord Jesus Christ) out to be a liar. If you haven’t already done so please take the trouble to read my series of articles on “How Did Three Days and Three Nights Become Good Friday to Sunday morning?”
Here he goes again I hear you say, is there anything that this man agrees with in the Holy Scriptures. Yes, absolutely, I agree with all the Holy Scriptures but not necessarily in the way many verses have been erroneously added or translated by the creatures of the Cainite-Judeo-Christian religion and Luke 23:43 is no exception to this problem. This verse has been translated without any forethought or understanding and the error is so subtle you will be stunned once you understand what they have done. First though, let’s copy all the relevant Holy Scriptures here just to refresh our memories:
Luke 23:39-43 (KJV) And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on Him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Emphasis mine)
OK, so what’s wrong I hear you say? Not at lot when it comes to correcting this verse, but that which is wrong is absolutely crucial to understanding the Truth of what Yashua Messiah (the Lord Jesus Christ) is saying here. More important, by far, is the acute torturous pain and suffering The Lord is experiencing at this very moment in time as He utters these words to the other man being crucified with Him. As this verse is written it could easily be the utterances of a man holding a normal conversation whilst sitting comfortably in an armchair. “Oh and by the way, today you will be with me in paradise” Just this flippant grammatical interpretation should be enough to make us question this translation without even studying the real evidence that makes this verse, as it is written, a load of blasphemous nonsense.
So let’s look at it as it’s written and see if it stacks up. Yashua Messiah (the Lord Jesus Christ) says to this other man that on that very day he will be in Paradise with The Lord. Hello! Excuse me!! This man will be where!? In paradise with The Lord on that very day. So how does that work then? If my memory of the Holy Scriptures serves me correctly (and it does) Yashua Messiah (the Lord Jesus Christ) dies that very afternoon and He’s laid in His tomb where He stays for three days and three nights and when resurrected returns to His Father in heaven after forty days of assorted appearances to His Learners (disciples). No other man has ever done that, only Yashua Messiah, and nowhere does it say He went to ‘paradise’ after He died. With this evidence alone we can already see there is a serious flaw or gaffe in the grammar of this verse and all that is required is the correct placement of the comma: Verily I say unto thee TO DAY, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Is that amazing or is that amazing!? There it is: Verily I say unto thee today!!!! Today even as I am dying the most tortuous painful death I will give you a place in my Kingdom. Now notice this verse for something else, because the man, who is also dying on a stake, seemed to have more understanding than most of mainstream Christianity: And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. Remember me when thou comest into thy Kingdom, and when will Yashua Messiah (the Lord Jesus Christ) be coming into His Kingdom? Well certainly not on that day.
However, I hope He is coming soon into His Kingdom, because watching this stinking world as it deteriorates into an abyss of filth, wickedness, murderous evil violence and corruption, it gets more saddening each day. If it is saddening me, how much more is it saddening The Father and Yashua Messiah?
OK, let’s set the record straight, this other man who died with Yashua Messiah that day is still in his grave and awaiting his resurrection when Yashua Messiah returns to set up His Kingdom (Paradise) here on this earth. When that happens Yashua Messiah will have fulfilled His promise to that man. If we continue to believe this Scripture as it is written then we make Yashua Messiah a liar, as He most definitely did not enter paradise on that day, He was buried in His tomb.
A little question we now have to ask ourselves is this, was this grammatical ‘error’ a mistake or a deliberate contamination by those with vested satanic religious interests? Was it done, as was the Good Friday to Sunday morning thing, to discredit Yashua Messiah and make Him out to be liar, or just an innocent ignorant slip of the pen? More the former than the latter I’ll wager, and I would win that wager too.
Furthermore, the issue of this grammatical error is critical in perpetuating the ‘Christians going to heaven’ myth. I have frequently heard mainstream Christians quote this same verse in support of their fallacious idea. The idea that as soon as we die we go to heaven, if we are Christians that is. As we can see, from the very straight forward evidence, that the other man who died that day with Yashua Messiah most definitely did not join Him in paradise. He, like Yashua Messiah, died that very day and his body most likely burned. The only difference being Yashua Messiah was resurrected three days and three nights later and other man is still dead in his grave and not in paradise – yet, but will be when he is resurrected!
Wow it all makes perfect sense because he would have got there before Christ did !!! Mans manipulation of the Bible has always made me very nervous of reading it …Im so glad i read this thank you
As always, glad to be of help.
No need to be nervous just on your guard, learn to discern with the power of The Holy Spirit (this will take time and practise) and be suspicious of ANYTHING that is not of His Grace.
Additionally, he was in the earth for three days, therefore not in paradise.
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 12:40 ESV
Three days and three nights in His tomb not just three days – and just like Jonah in the fish’s belly.
The body of Christ was resurrected in addition to his Spirit. The body simply stayed 3 days longer. The body of the thief remains to this day. The spirit of a man is the substance of this question. Christ may pick up and lay down His life as he chooses. Whether in the course of those 40 days He appeared either in the Spirit or the flesh to the prisoners held in chains (who abandoned their rightful estate in that world “that then was” 2 Peter 3) is not the operative question.
The question is: did the thief really ascend into “paradise” and if so, is this place the same place as “heaven” ? The bible says that no man has ascended into heaven.John 3:13 Hence, many of the dead in flesh have in spirit form entered into “My rest”–some were not allowed to enter into “My rest”. The bodies all remain in the dirt nap. Save one—Yashua.
Paradise? Some equate this with “heaven”, however all of them, to me, seem driven to describe it as merely anything which is NOT a hole in the ground. They like to say “Oh daddy is looking down at us now” but as stated, no man yet has ascended there. In fact, the only heaven that some of us may ever enter, is the one slated for this earth. And that’s wonderful news by my standards.
“The body of Christ was resurrected in addition to his Spirit. The body simply stayed 3 days longer.”
Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Yashua Messiah was dead in His tomb for three days and three nights and there was no resurrection prior to that. Otherwise you make him out to be a liar.
The thief died and his body probably burned in the Valley of Hinnom, where all the refuse from Jerusalem was burned, otherwise known a ge-henna from ge-hinnom.
The dead know nothing, see nothing, hear nothing, taste nothing, feel nothing – THEY’RE DEAD – in a state of oblivion – nothingness. That is where the malefactor is and will remain until the resurrection of the dead in the future.
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TTND, For a long time I landed on the same solution, that the translation was the problem with Jesus’ reply to the penitent thief, but had to let it go in favor of a more Occam’s Razor-type solution. First, bear in mind one definition for “paradise” from Strong’s Concordance is as follows:
3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
I now believe, from the OT, that Jesus was speaking euphemistically. I believe He was speaking the same way Jacob spoke when he thought Joseph was dead and said he would “go down to the grave unto my son mourning” (Gen. 37:35). No one goes to their grave happy or sad, but this is how death was referred to in the OT, as if life continued in Hades. Another expression describing death in the OT is “gathered unto thy/my/his people”, as if death was a happy family reunion. This expression is found in Gen. 25:17, 35:19, 49:29, 33, Num. 20:24, 26, 27:13, 31:2 and Deut. 32:50 (KJV). Jesus used similar euphemistic language in His parable of the dead rich man and the dead beggar Lazarus by making it seem as if the dead could experience thirst, have conversations, etc. Unfortunately, many traditionalists actually think so.
No it’s definitely a translation problem, for Jacob knew that the dead know nothing, just as King Solomon later made clear in Ecclesiastes. These fundamentals were all well known by The Patriarchs.
This article should iron out a few of your ideas.
What is Soul Sleep and Do The Holy Scriptures Disprove It? (The Myth of The Immortal Soul) – Part 1 of 2
My previous comment in no way denies soul sleep, nor did I impugn Jacob’s understanding of the scriptures. Of course Jacob and the Patriarchs knew the dead know nothing and I agree with the premise of your other article, that the scriptures do not disprove soul sleep.
Jesus also knew the dead know nothing, but He gave us the parable of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus in which it seemed as if the dead know plenty. Although Jacob knew the dead know nothing, he said he would go down to the grave “unto my son”, as if to say he would be “with him”, or “gathered” unto him. He also suggested that he would know sorrow there. It’s parabolic language or poetic license, just like today’s expressions “passed away” or “went home”, instead of “died”. I think the desire to soften the stark reality of death in this way is very common throughout all of time. I am not aware of anyone else who holds my viewpoint on Jesus’ reply to the penitent thief, but it sits easier with me. Thanks for your reply.
His Parables are sometimes purely symbolic and analogous with no literal intent in them at all, and so it is with the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
In the future Kingdom of Yah (God), after the resurrection, it might be possible for this scenario to occur, whereby those cast into outer darkness may be able to see those in His Kingdom, but apart from this parable I am not aware of any other Scripture that supports or points to it.
As for your ideas re the called malefactor I don’t see where they make any contribution to the corrupted account.
The whole point of my article was the expose of BS mainstream Christianity’s false interpretation of it. Which they use to bolster their other lie of the immortal soul. That’s all.
TTND: “His Parables are sometimes purely symbolic and analogous with no literal intent in them at all, and so it is with the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.”
Of course this is true. And I believe Jesus also spoke symbolically, with no literal intent, to the penitent thief. I showed from Scripture why I believe so.
TTND: “As for your ideas re the called malefactor I don’t see where they make any contribution to the corrupted account.”
I did not share any ideas about “the called malefactor”, so I don’t understand what you meant here. I shared my idea about Jesus’ reply to him. I understood the point of your article and the point of my comment was to share a different understanding of Jesus’ meaning in His reply to the penitent thief, one that does not take issue with the translation. None of us should draw our conclusions from consensus, regardless of whether the consensus comes from the BS mainstream or even the staunchest opponents of the BS mainstream.
My original comment was very clear and straightforward. It does not add, subtract or deny the truth of any Scriptures. It is simply how I interpret the title of your article.
Ah but that’s just it, THERE IS A LITERAL INTENT, for the malefactor WILL BE in paradise (The Kingdom of Yah [God]) when he is resurrected and Baptised.
This is where you have gone wrong.
Well, since I’m going with Strong’s 3rd definition of “paradise”, it looks to me like the malefactor, one of the “all” in John 5:28, will be resurrected from Hades, which Jesus referred to as “Paradise”. If you scroll up, I posted one of Strong’s definitions for “Paradise”. As I see it, Jesus chose the nicer sounding word “Paradise” to depict the nicer part of the “great gulf” between the rich man and beggar Lazarus.
So, you say there is baptism after resurrection? I’m sure you include ample Scriptures in your articles to support your views, but would you kindly send just one supporting verse or passage to save me some time? I never heard this before and I’m old. I appreciate it.
I really don’t care what you’re going with.
The bottom line is this, when Yashua Messiah rules in His Kingdom He will draw ALL men to Himself, so that means the second resurrection at the end of The Millennium, when the great majority of mankind will be resurrected in new physical bodies. This is when the malefactor will be resurrected, not in the first resurrection.
The first resurrection is only for those who have been called in this age and Baptised – those with Spiritual bodies – some will enter The Kingdom, others will be cast into outer darkness.
Why Are There Two Resurrections?:
Ask yourself why the Apostle Paul writes (Philippians 1:21)
‘for to me to live is Christ, but to die is gain’
and verse 22 where he is clearly looking forward to being with Christ –
‘or I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:’
Despite his knowledge if the truth if resurrection, he clearly anticipated a ‘conscious’ experience of being with Christ in death.
WRONG! DEATH IS DEATH IS DEATH, and the dead know nothing!
The Resurrection will be as if no time has passed at all, just as when we fall sleep we’re not conscious of time passing – we go to sleep and then in a nano-second we’re awake in the morning. Death is the same, only there’s no dreams or any consciousness.
When Paul is resurrected it will be for him as though no time has passed at all, and that is the same for all The Elect, whether they died 2,000 years ago or yesterday!